In 2019, Dr. Kendii was awarded the prestigious Guggenheim Fellowship, and the following year, Boston University honored him with an endowed professorship. 
IXK: Whats at stake is joy. And he told the New Yorker he only learned about critical race theory in the first place by digging through the footnotes of How To Be An Antiracist. But typically, those policies were able to be instituted in the context of a crisis. Jillian Tamaki. What captured our imaginations, reflected our emotions and sparked our hope for a better tomorrow? I just dont know how I can describe that person as being antiracist. IBRAM X. KENDI: I think whats being described as critical race theory is any analysis, critical analysis, of race or racism in this country that does not position this country as post-racial, any attempt to hold people who are being racist accountable, any attempt to have a clear and complex multivariate approach to American history, whereby we actually document and talk about and teach about the history of racism in this country, and certainly attempts to create outcomes that are more equitable and just. Its pretty obvious that the Affordable Care Act was going to reduce the gap in uninsurance rates between Black, brown, and white Americans. Its very, very hard to get a person to do that in the matter of a few hours or in the matter of time that most of these trainings are. I even wanted people to understand the relationship of the individual to these larger structures of racism. LitCharts Teacher Editions. I didnt know how people would respond. And what was happening was that people were producing racist ideas to defend or justify racist policies that oftentimes benefited them. Reynolds and Ibram X. Kendi set out to make Stamped something other than a history book. Doctors Note Issue 18 Sometimes you have to boil the ocean In this issue: My online courses / Anti-racism is a marathon, not a sprint / Boiling the Ocean / Beyond the Double Diamond / The Linkhole / Book Corner What are some important quotations fromMrs. Dallowaythat would be useful in essays? How has her Find examples in Mrs. Dalloway of how "the invisible thread" links characters of the novel who are otherwise unconnected. Kendi defines racism as a system comprised of three main components: racial inequities; the racist policies that create these inequities; and the racist ideas that justify these policies. How do you think about policies where they would undoubtedly decrease racial inequality but the political backlash they could create might increase it by electing reactionary politicians? And at the time, organizations like Mothers Against Drunk Driving and others were organizing and really trying to get more tougher laws in the books and even punitive responses. Kendi imagines an antiracist world in which every group has its own spaces, and everyone can participate in any of them. Oftentimes theres this belief that if were open and honest about racism, it will automatically hurt us politically, and I just dont know whether thats necessarily always the case. That latter company, that latter scenario to me is more in line with being antiracist, and the first one is more symbolic. I dont know if I necessarily agree with scholars who make the case that Black communities have criminogenic conditions. The Equity Talks series is a global forum offering an in-depth study of justice through forthright discussion. [MUSIC PLAYING], The Ezra Klein Show is a production of New York Times Opinion. Thats the irony of it. (This virtual interview, hosted by TED's current affairs curator Whitney Pennington Rodgers and speaker development curator Cloe Shasha, was recorded June 9, 2020. Web Ibram X. Kendi, the kind, dignified, preternaturally wise, and soft-spoken teacher, indefatigable in his quest to set you on the path toward true knowledge. If it increased it, it was racist. IBRAM X. KENDI: Well, what it means to be antiracist is to first recognize that we live in a society of racial inequities, from wealth to health to criminal justice to education, and to recognize that weve been taught that, lets say, Black people are disproportionately impoverished or incarcerated because theres something wrong with Black people behaviorally or culturally. And I think to complicate it even further, there will be policies that, lets say, close gaps between, lets say, Black people and white people and open gaps between, lets say, white people and Latinx people. No, youre not. IXK: Man, where, where do we even begin? What are the things that you think are realistic but on the outside of realistic that you hope to see in the next five years? So whats it all been like for you? How does this make the transition not into a bill that were just looking at but into the harsh trade-offs that we all face in everyday politics? TLFS: Youve really leaned into the childrens aspectand the power of individuals that you speak of often. Initially I was just horrified to see the way in which my books and other books were distorted and even weaponized because Senator Cruz was trying to undermine someone who was nominated for the court and their record was untouchable. TLFS: We know that a lot of the framing around critical race theory has been incredibly successful. And so they have went about instituting these racist voter suppression policies, which primarily make it harder for Black, brown, and indigenous people to vote but really, it makes it harder for all people to vote and then justified those policies with ideas of voter fraud that those people in Philadelphia and Detroit and Atlanta are fraudulent or corrupt. Through his books and speeches, he asserted that racist policies and ideas are deeply ingrained in So I think of revolutions as an answer for when politics has failed, has truly failed. You may unsubscribe or adjust your preferences at any time. Laura FlandersTwitterLaura Flanders is the author of several books, the host of the nationally syndicated public television show (and podcast) The Laura Flanders Show and the recipient of a 2019 Lannan Cultural Freedom Fellowship. Segregationists believe that racial groups should be divided because some are inherently superior to others. 
White Americans dont know that some studies show that the majority of white Americans were against secession in the South. I think thats whats also been striking to me, that you can have such prominent white supremacist thoughts dominating the Republican Party that even Donald Trump himself isnt necessarily driving. And I want to repeat that because it is so important to understanding his thought. notifications whenever new talks are published. Every Tuesday and Friday, Ezra Klein invites you into a conversation about something that matters, like todays episode with Ibram X. Kendi. Learn how you can actively use this awareness to Were seeing this now with I think the example of voting is an extremely obvious example, where particularly the Republican Party is recognizing that the demographics and the ideology of the country is turning away from them. tn_author: ['laura-f'], We somehow imagine that that form of analysis is divisive, even though, to me, it will actually bring us together because different communities will be able to see that it is additive for their communities. But I also think its important to child-proof the environment, which means creating a diverse, antiracist environment for the child, from the school to the neighborhood, to what books youre reading to your child. I think the principle and this becomes a principle within the courts, which, of course, is outlandish, but you asked. Next, Kendi compares antiracism to segregationism and assimilationism, two common political stances that have failed to produce racial equity. And there are studies suggesting that when they do that, on the one hand, its good for Black incomes, good for Black employment because it gets the economy moving faster. Everyone expected that. But there are examples in which we do it in other ways. Transcript: Ezra Klein Interviews Ibram X. Kendi, https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/16/podcasts/transcript-ezra-klein-interviews-ibram-x-kendi.html. But for whatever reason, it doesnt make as much sense for us to have an assessment, an analytical assessment, of that same tax bill to understand, is this going to grow or reduce the racial wealth gap, as an example, or is it going to create more income inequality, whether thats income inequality across racial groups or even between racial groups or even between genders. And so I think there are studies that show that funding put in other areas can actually have an impact as well. I see products, but I dont see that kind of consequentialist analysis that would let people say with confidence, yeah, were doing this, and we really have reason to believe it will have the effect we want it to have, as opposed to, were doing this because it makes us look like good people. Jeffrey C. Stewart, in his review of How to Be an Antiracist for The New York Times, stated: Kendi is on a mission to push those of us who believe we are not racists to become something else: antiracists, who support ideas and policies affirming that the racial groups are equals in all their apparent differences that there is nothing right And people believe those ideas and consume them. And this is all playing out the exact same time as a health care reform is. IBRAM X. KENDI: No, youre not. And I wonder if you think thats still part of it here, that there is an implicit offer being made of, keep the wages of whiteness, even as you dont get actual higher wages, and whether thats one of the weak points of this coalition and also one of the fears it has as it comes under real attack? Web"The only way to undo racism is to consistently identify and describe it -- and then dismantle it." I wanted people to understood what it meant to be antiracist. And so its important for people to empirically show people how and why certain policies are not just harming Black brown and indigenous people, as they are tremendously, but theyre also harming us all. So in this conversation, I wanted to know how he feels about the way his book and ideas have been deployed as they move from being a book and ideas to being at the center of such a society-wide change. White Americans dont know that there were roughly 5 million poor non-slaveholding whites in 1860. IXK: Id say in two ways: First, talk about how historically white supremacist organizations have always gone to white people and said you are the primary victims of racism. tn_keyword: ['anti-racis'], IBRAM X. KENDI: I think first and foremost, when we think of the funding that U.S. police receive, I dont think many Americans know that, I think a recent study found, that the combined funding of the U.S. police forces is more than every other military in the world except the Chinese and the American military. EZRA KLEIN: How do you think you do that? If a given policy or action reduced racial inequality, it was an antiracist action. His argument there was that it doesnt matter what you intend, it doesnt matter what you feel, all that matters the only thing that matters is outcomes. But then I think for that understanding to come about as a result of, least for many people, the brutal murders of George Floyd and Ahmaud Arbery and Breonna Taylor obviously was very difficult for me to deal with it. Kendi ends the book by analyzing how antiracist activism can achieve social change. The citation above will include either 2 or 3 dates. IXK: I think we should understand the effect of the structural on the individual. I just think if we really want to create a society, just a human society where we are able to live our best lives, where were putting in place policies and practices that have been proven to have the effect that we want them to have, we have to study it. And we have to create the apparatus that will allow us to do that. It makes sense for so many people to have that in place. At a time, it was the result of we had this genetic predisposition to violence and criminality. On the other hand, it is widely believed that it is harmful politically to even use the R word, to describe someone as racist, to talk about racism, and that it is sort of political suicide to do so. For one thing, I think you see a very clear admission on the part of the right of this conversation that they might be losing control of the American narrative, and they want to get it back. Rather than a list of dates or an interpretation of the Both of those plans obviously had many different elements to them. And then people were consuming those racist ideas, which was then leading to ignorance and hate. But many, many, many whove assembled under his flag are not. And I think in order for us to talk about defunding the police and even whether we should pursue that, we cant divorce that from the argument over the source of the crime itself. IBRAM X. KENDI: Our focus should be on the outcome. I saw that thats what people were looking for, and I try to be responsive. Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson faced tough questioning during the Senate confirmation hearing on her nomination to the Supreme Court. Jason Reynolds' extraordinary gifts with language make reading this history with commentary feel almost like listening to a freestyle rap artist. And for that interview, I was rereading his memoir really closely. WebHill meets Ibram X. Kendi, who argues in favor or the teaching of systemic racism and critical race theory in schools, and The Heritage Foundation's Mike Gonzalez, a conservative, argues against. This kind of thinking is the essence of racism. $4.68. And so what do you think of the big training investment, if its not really matched by other things, particularly if you dont really do the work on whether or not these trainings work? Many people did. So if you want to change hearts and minds, change policy, and hearts and minds will follow. 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IXK: Whats at stake is joy. And he told the New Yorker he only learned about critical race theory in the first place by digging through the footnotes of How To Be An Antiracist. But typically, those policies were able to be instituted in the context of a crisis. Jillian Tamaki. What captured our imaginations, reflected our emotions and sparked our hope for a better tomorrow? I just dont know how I can describe that person as being antiracist. IBRAM X. KENDI: I think whats being described as critical race theory is any analysis, critical analysis, of race or racism in this country that does not position this country as post-racial, any attempt to hold people who are being racist accountable, any attempt to have a clear and complex multivariate approach to American history, whereby we actually document and talk about and teach about the history of racism in this country, and certainly attempts to create outcomes that are more equitable and just. Its pretty obvious that the Affordable Care Act was going to reduce the gap in uninsurance rates between Black, brown, and white Americans. Its very, very hard to get a person to do that in the matter of a few hours or in the matter of time that most of these trainings are. I even wanted people to understand the relationship of the individual to these larger structures of racism. LitCharts Teacher Editions. I didnt know how people would respond. And what was happening was that people were producing racist ideas to defend or justify racist policies that oftentimes benefited them. Reynolds and Ibram X. Kendi set out to make Stamped something other than a history book. Doctors Note Issue 18 Sometimes you have to boil the ocean In this issue: My online courses / Anti-racism is a marathon, not a sprint / Boiling the Ocean / Beyond the Double Diamond / The Linkhole / Book Corner What are some important quotations fromMrs. Dallowaythat would be useful in essays? How has her Find examples in Mrs. Dalloway of how "the invisible thread" links characters of the novel who are otherwise unconnected. Kendi defines racism as a system comprised of three main components: racial inequities; the racist policies that create these inequities; and the racist ideas that justify these policies. How do you think about policies where they would undoubtedly decrease racial inequality but the political backlash they could create might increase it by electing reactionary politicians? And at the time, organizations like Mothers Against Drunk Driving and others were organizing and really trying to get more tougher laws in the books and even punitive responses. Kendi imagines an antiracist world in which every group has its own spaces, and everyone can participate in any of them. Oftentimes theres this belief that if were open and honest about racism, it will automatically hurt us politically, and I just dont know whether thats necessarily always the case. That latter company, that latter scenario to me is more in line with being antiracist, and the first one is more symbolic. I dont know if I necessarily agree with scholars who make the case that Black communities have criminogenic conditions. The Equity Talks series is a global forum offering an in-depth study of justice through forthright discussion. [MUSIC PLAYING], The Ezra Klein Show is a production of New York Times Opinion. Thats the irony of it. (This virtual interview, hosted by TED's current affairs curator Whitney Pennington Rodgers and speaker development curator Cloe Shasha, was recorded June 9, 2020. Web Ibram X. Kendi, the kind, dignified, preternaturally wise, and soft-spoken teacher, indefatigable in his quest to set you on the path toward true knowledge. If it increased it, it was racist. IBRAM X. KENDI: Well, what it means to be antiracist is to first recognize that we live in a society of racial inequities, from wealth to health to criminal justice to education, and to recognize that weve been taught that, lets say, Black people are disproportionately impoverished or incarcerated because theres something wrong with Black people behaviorally or culturally. And I think to complicate it even further, there will be policies that, lets say, close gaps between, lets say, Black people and white people and open gaps between, lets say, white people and Latinx people. No, youre not. IXK: Man, where, where do we even begin? What are the things that you think are realistic but on the outside of realistic that you hope to see in the next five years? So whats it all been like for you? How does this make the transition not into a bill that were just looking at but into the harsh trade-offs that we all face in everyday politics? TLFS: Youve really leaned into the childrens aspectand the power of individuals that you speak of often. Initially I was just horrified to see the way in which my books and other books were distorted and even weaponized because Senator Cruz was trying to undermine someone who was nominated for the court and their record was untouchable. TLFS: We know that a lot of the framing around critical race theory has been incredibly successful. And so they have went about instituting these racist voter suppression policies, which primarily make it harder for Black, brown, and indigenous people to vote but really, it makes it harder for all people to vote and then justified those policies with ideas of voter fraud that those people in Philadelphia and Detroit and Atlanta are fraudulent or corrupt. Through his books and speeches, he asserted that racist policies and ideas are deeply ingrained in So I think of revolutions as an answer for when politics has failed, has truly failed. You may unsubscribe or adjust your preferences at any time. Laura FlandersTwitterLaura Flanders is the author of several books, the host of the nationally syndicated public television show (and podcast) The Laura Flanders Show and the recipient of a 2019 Lannan Cultural Freedom Fellowship. Segregationists believe that racial groups should be divided because some are inherently superior to others. White Americans dont know that some studies show that the majority of white Americans were against secession in the South. I think thats whats also been striking to me, that you can have such prominent white supremacist thoughts dominating the Republican Party that even Donald Trump himself isnt necessarily driving. And I want to repeat that because it is so important to understanding his thought. notifications whenever new talks are published. Every Tuesday and Friday, Ezra Klein invites you into a conversation about something that matters, like todays episode with Ibram X. Kendi. Learn how you can actively use this awareness to Were seeing this now with I think the example of voting is an extremely obvious example, where particularly the Republican Party is recognizing that the demographics and the ideology of the country is turning away from them. tn_author: ['laura-f'], We somehow imagine that that form of analysis is divisive, even though, to me, it will actually bring us together because different communities will be able to see that it is additive for their communities. But I also think its important to child-proof the environment, which means creating a diverse, antiracist environment for the child, from the school to the neighborhood, to what books youre reading to your child. I think the principle and this becomes a principle within the courts, which, of course, is outlandish, but you asked. Next, Kendi compares antiracism to segregationism and assimilationism, two common political stances that have failed to produce racial equity. And there are studies suggesting that when they do that, on the one hand, its good for Black incomes, good for Black employment because it gets the economy moving faster. Everyone expected that. But there are examples in which we do it in other ways. Transcript: Ezra Klein Interviews Ibram X. Kendi, https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/16/podcasts/transcript-ezra-klein-interviews-ibram-x-kendi.html. But for whatever reason, it doesnt make as much sense for us to have an assessment, an analytical assessment, of that same tax bill to understand, is this going to grow or reduce the racial wealth gap, as an example, or is it going to create more income inequality, whether thats income inequality across racial groups or even between racial groups or even between genders. And so I think there are studies that show that funding put in other areas can actually have an impact as well. I see products, but I dont see that kind of consequentialist analysis that would let people say with confidence, yeah, were doing this, and we really have reason to believe it will have the effect we want it to have, as opposed to, were doing this because it makes us look like good people. Jeffrey C. Stewart, in his review of How to Be an Antiracist for The New York Times, stated: Kendi is on a mission to push those of us who believe we are not racists to become something else: antiracists, who support ideas and policies affirming that the racial groups are equals in all their apparent differences that there is nothing right And people believe those ideas and consume them. And this is all playing out the exact same time as a health care reform is. IBRAM X. KENDI: No, youre not. And I wonder if you think thats still part of it here, that there is an implicit offer being made of, keep the wages of whiteness, even as you dont get actual higher wages, and whether thats one of the weak points of this coalition and also one of the fears it has as it comes under real attack? Web"The only way to undo racism is to consistently identify and describe it -- and then dismantle it." I wanted people to understood what it meant to be antiracist. And so its important for people to empirically show people how and why certain policies are not just harming Black brown and indigenous people, as they are tremendously, but theyre also harming us all. So in this conversation, I wanted to know how he feels about the way his book and ideas have been deployed as they move from being a book and ideas to being at the center of such a society-wide change. White Americans dont know that there were roughly 5 million poor non-slaveholding whites in 1860. IXK: Id say in two ways: First, talk about how historically white supremacist organizations have always gone to white people and said you are the primary victims of racism. tn_keyword: ['anti-racis'], IBRAM X. KENDI: I think first and foremost, when we think of the funding that U.S. police receive, I dont think many Americans know that, I think a recent study found, that the combined funding of the U.S. police forces is more than every other military in the world except the Chinese and the American military. EZRA KLEIN: How do you think you do that? If a given policy or action reduced racial inequality, it was an antiracist action. His argument there was that it doesnt matter what you intend, it doesnt matter what you feel, all that matters the only thing that matters is outcomes. But then I think for that understanding to come about as a result of, least for many people, the brutal murders of George Floyd and Ahmaud Arbery and Breonna Taylor obviously was very difficult for me to deal with it. Kendi ends the book by analyzing how antiracist activism can achieve social change. The citation above will include either 2 or 3 dates. IXK: I think we should understand the effect of the structural on the individual. I just think if we really want to create a society, just a human society where we are able to live our best lives, where were putting in place policies and practices that have been proven to have the effect that we want them to have, we have to study it. And we have to create the apparatus that will allow us to do that. It makes sense for so many people to have that in place. At a time, it was the result of we had this genetic predisposition to violence and criminality. On the other hand, it is widely believed that it is harmful politically to even use the R word, to describe someone as racist, to talk about racism, and that it is sort of political suicide to do so. For one thing, I think you see a very clear admission on the part of the right of this conversation that they might be losing control of the American narrative, and they want to get it back. Rather than a list of dates or an interpretation of the Both of those plans obviously had many different elements to them. And then people were consuming those racist ideas, which was then leading to ignorance and hate. But many, many, many whove assembled under his flag are not. And I think in order for us to talk about defunding the police and even whether we should pursue that, we cant divorce that from the argument over the source of the crime itself. IBRAM X. KENDI: Our focus should be on the outcome. I saw that thats what people were looking for, and I try to be responsive. Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson faced tough questioning during the Senate confirmation hearing on her nomination to the Supreme Court. Jason Reynolds' extraordinary gifts with language make reading this history with commentary feel almost like listening to a freestyle rap artist. And for that interview, I was rereading his memoir really closely. WebHill meets Ibram X. Kendi, who argues in favor or the teaching of systemic racism and critical race theory in schools, and The Heritage Foundation's Mike Gonzalez, a conservative, argues against. This kind of thinking is the essence of racism. $4.68. And so what do you think of the big training investment, if its not really matched by other things, particularly if you dont really do the work on whether or not these trainings work? Many people did. So if you want to change hearts and minds, change policy, and hearts and minds will follow. 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